13 votes

Why Bitcoin will jump to $100-$200 over the next 6-12 months.

For those of you that don't know, bitcoin is a decentralized crypto currency that is not regulated by governments or banks.

Bitcoins are created by a process called mining, which is nothing more than figuring out the answer to a mathematical puzzle. This is done by testing many possible answers as fast as possible, until finally finding the combination that works. When the correct answer is found, bitcoins are rewarded to the node who solved the puzzle.

Up until just recently, the fastest way to mine bitcoins were with GPU's from powerful graphics cards, which mined at a rates of 80-200 M/hs(million hashes per second). Many bitcoin miners would set up "rigs" of these machines full of these graphics cards to get the highest rates possible.

And for the most part, this was good, as it gave people with not so great hardware a chance to get in the game and try mining some bitcoins, without the fear of any one person or group possessing all the hashing power.

Introducing ASIC:
ASIC stands for Application Specific Integrated Circuit; in other words, it is a computer chip that is designed to do a very specific task, very well. There are currently a small group of manufactures getting ready to release asic chips designed specifically for bitcoin mining that is going to blow the current mining technology out of the water. Some of these units are processing upwards of 80 G/Hs(GigaHashes (i.e. 1000 M/hs = 1 G/hs), which means that the rate bitcoins are going to be generated is going to quadruple over the next 12 months.

And because of the way bitcoin was designed, there will only ever be a total of 21 Million bitcoins in existance. This was hard-coded into the design to prevent inflation, and devaluation. Once the last coins are mined, the value of them is going to skyrocket.

Also, lets take a look at what bitcoin has done lately:

If you had invested just $100 6 months ago, the average price of bitcoins were $10.30, which would have bought you 9.708737864 bitcoins.

Come to today, the closing price on mtgox.com was $33.81. Those bitcoins today would be worth $328.25. That a return of over 200% in just 6 months.

Combine this with the fact that bitcoins are becoming more popular. MtGox, the worlds largest bitcoin exchange has just announced its partnering with CoinLab here in the US to service the increase demand from US based customers. Also, just by looking at the average volume over the last 6 months should tell you something; In Oct-2012, there were an average of 34,676 transactions per day. Today, in March of 2013, there are approximately 66,255 transactions per day.(data by blockchain.info) so popularity is steadily increasing.

So as you can see, impending scarcity, greater acceptance and usage, combined with a devaluing dollar, is creating a perfect storm for bitcoin to surge unlike anything ever seen before in the next 6-12 months. If you have a few hundred in federal reserve notes you can afford to invest, I highly suggest you buy a few bitcoins and hold on to them for the ride.

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can't resist a little bump...

Bitcoin price: (was) $33.81
This thread, not quite a year old, Just reminds me not to discount or blow off things that I don't know about... the DP is a garden of info and a farmer's market of ideas worth considering and exploring... long live DP.

ohhhh

the prophecy..... You were off. It is at $300 + right now.
Good call

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

Fuck that!

70% devaluation in a couple of days is a game for the desperate! i play that Poker game every Saturday in my garage... basically 1 person always win the others loses! same thing for Bitcrash. if 4 people play 25% wins the pot and 75% loses everything.

Lol watch this Bitcoin bozos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98PlB1PS-O0

YOUR PREDICTIONS WERE

YOUR PREDICTIONS WERE RIGHT!!!

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

If you wish upon a star...

your dreams will come true... :)

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Are we being "Usefull idiots" in the late great digital slavery?

DP had a post earlier today about the CIA and InQTel taking a serious interest in Bitcoin.

http://s5.dailypaul.com/278991#comment-3008473

Just thinking out loud... hey what a way to roll out or test market a digital currency for the new world order. buyout...control, or co-opt BitCoin.

Even if they dont use it as a major currency, there is a serious way to launder black market $$$ with bitcoin. Thus you can see why the CIA would be so interested in this.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

Accentuate the affirmative

I have read a lot about Bitcoin lately, and I see mostly two things.

The mainstream media keeps spreading negative lies about Bitcoin, which get repeated and refuted to death. For example, they talk about its wild price fluctuations. Have you ever seen a chart of the price of silver? Bitcoin is tame by comparison, and the bigger it gets, the less it fluctuates. The wild "crash" of 2011 saw the price drop about 40%, and it took about 7 months to get back where it had been. That move was tiny in comparison to the Tech and housing bubbles.

Another thing they always bring up is its use for illegal activities (most of which should not be illegal anyway, but that's another story). Bloomberg today said one downside of Bitcoin is that there are supposedly $2 million worth of illegal drug purchases in Bitcoin every month. Seriously? We should all abandon Bitcoin because 0.005% of the global illegal drug trade is paid for in Bitcoin? That's the best argument you can come up with?

The other thing I see is people trying to defend Bitcoin by explaining the technical details. It takes several hours to fully understand the details, kind of like learning how the Fed works, but without the nausea. All most people need to know is that it's suitable to function as a global currency, and cannot be created or controlled by any government. The algorithms are published, and the software is open source, available for all to view and validate, so there are no hidden beneficiaries.

Yes, the ones who get in early stand the most to gain (just like with fiat currencies), but since inflation is strictly controlled by the algorithm, unlike quantitative easing, this is a one-time inequity. Those who risk today get rewarded if Bitcoin becomes the global currency. Those who wait simply benefit from having a complete separation of currency and state.

But what I rarely see is people talking about the advantages of a cybercurrency. With Bitcoin, you can easily send any amount of money (that you own), anywhere in the world, any time of night or day, with minimal transaction fees (30 cents or less), and have the transaction confirmed in about an hour. Compare that to bank transfers that take several days, or wire transfers that cost $35 or more.

The amazing thing is that individuals can interact directly, across the globe, with all the advantages of an uncounterfittable version of cash. There are no banks involved to rack up fees and collect interest while your money is in transit.

Merchants will be delighted to know that the transfers are irreversible. You can ship your goods the same day without fear of bounced checks, chargebacks, or disputes.

If the buyer wants protection from a possibly unscrupulous unknown vendor, he can make payment through an escrow service, a mutually-trusted independent third party who, for a small fee, holds onto the money until any disputes are resolved.

Money is one of the greatest inventions of all time. It allows bartering across time and space, which makes advanced civilization possible. The biggest problem with money is that governments control and abuse it. Bitcoin is an advanced form of money that solves that problem, and many others.

Bitcoin is like the Internet 20 years ago. It's a great technological advance, but so far, only a few people see it's true potential, or even know it exists. Congratulations, you are one of the lucky few!

Bitcoins goes over $40!

Still Rising!

Hater to Proponent, Why?

Tell us why you went from a Bitcoin Hater to a Bitcoin Proponent?

What drew me to Bitcoin was the technology behind it, I have a fundamental understanding of encryption and computer security and found that it was a secure protocol and even if the encryption was broken it would generally not allow someone to take someone else's Bitcoins unless they changed the way the standard Bitcoin client works.

I like gold and silver like most of the users on here and even toyed with the idea of creating a bitcoin clone backed with silver or gold but after much legal expense realized it would not be secure from government seizure or court orders so I tossed the idea for now.

I left the United States back in 2010, renounced my U.S. citizenship, paid my expatriation tax and haven't regretted it once.

I wish everyone on here good luck, but I won't be posting again.

Where did you go to?

Where did you go to?

Due Your Due Diligence

It is pretty obvious that the people that bad-talk bitcoins haven't really done their homework.

Please become informed before critiquing something you're simply "skeptical" about.

Here are two great presentations on bitcoins:

http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-dece...

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Bitcoins $36.50

Still Rising! Funny how a currency that isn't centrally controlled and Manipulated appreciates in Value against one that is...

Looking for info on ASICs

So far I've only found butterfly labs for ASICs... Anyone here know some alternatives? (Especially cheaper stuff.)

To those late to the bitcoin party: You will be sorry.

HONEST RON 2012!
LEGALIZE LIBERTY!

If you don't know what an ASIC is

Then you're not going to be able to make any use of them even if you were buried in them.

This stuff isn't plug and play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIC

I looked into mining...

but I wonder whats the cost vs reward..

Like how much on average does it cost in energy to Mine a Bitcoin and is it profitable?

Haven't really seen anything to trust this Bitcoin yet

I am kind of drawn away because it almost sounds like a scam to me, and if not, it seems rigged for the really computer savvy folks. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't done much research on it, but I feel like we're getting caught up in something that isn't really a viable solution to our monetary problems.

It's not a maybe that You are wrong... You are wrong..

Why would you comment or have an opinion on something which you admit you are ignorant on...

Geeeez... It's like talking to Obamabots over here. They wanna have an opinion on shit they have no clue about...

Look, do some research... as soon as you understand you will be buying or mining Bitcoins.

Why do I feel like I'm talking to neo-cons and liberals trying to convince them to use logic and reason when I am actually talking to Libertarians about Bitcoins.

C'mon man you're not going to

C'mon man you're not going to convince anyone like that, look I was just stating my initial reaction, I am in process of researching it a step at a time but I refuse to just fall in line with it just because it's the new fad on this site

I'm not trying to convince you

If you have any common sense and want to fight for liberty you wont need convincing from others...

You are correct you shouldnt fall in line, You should do research, You need to do your due diligence, I did... Started off a bitcoin hater.. now I'm a major advocate.

Remember the argument is Bitcoin vs Dollars...Not Bitcoins vs Metals...

Gold and Silver is money... but Bitcoins is the best currency available.

I’ll list my conclusions and why I came to them. If you agree please let me know. More importantly if you don’t agree with my conclusions please tell me why.

Conclusion 1: The Bitcoins platform is made to be very difficult to be hacked or shut down.

1. Bitcoin client is a P2P network with open source programming. This means there is no central server as everyone in the network acts as an independent network host. From my understanding, to stop bitcoins you would basically have to shut down the internet. If someone wanted to change the protocol and platform of the bitcoin client they would have to have a large majority of the network agree to it (updates). With so much at stake and bitcoins being open source if any major changes were to occur to negatively impact the platform currently used it would be rejected by the network.

Conclusion 2: The Bitcoins platform is made to be very difficult to be manipulated or defrauded.

1. Written into the platform programming is a mathematic algorithm that limits the number of bitcoins to ever be created at 21 million. No more will ever be made or can be made. This means there is no central authority and no one has control over the creation of bitcoins. Furthermore, Bitcoins is being Audited by Every user constantly. This is such an amazing feature! Basically, every transaction ever ever ever made is logged and recorded in a ledger. Everyone has this ledger and it is constantly being checked, scrutinized, and updated by the network. The auditing is part of any Transaction and if your cpu participates in it, you are paid a fee. The ledger is compartmentalized into “blocks” and the ledger is basically a string of these data blocks. New blocks created are comprised of a “hash” from the previous block. Making the creation of a block a sequential phenomenon. So if someone wanted to change a block in the ledger, they would have to go back and change every block ever created before it. As an auditor think about how difficult moreover impossible this is! If they did manage to do this, they’re would be so many error points when being scrutinized by the network it would be immediately rejected. This also means, Every bitcoin in existence is known. So you have an exact number of the monetary amount.

Conclusion 3 : Bitcoins offers a high level of anonymity

1. The way the bitcoins platform works is that when bitcoins are created or sent, they are sent to an account. This account is a numeric and alphabet string. Even though everyone has access to the ledger all they can see are transactions to these accounts. You can create unlimited accounts through their generator or do it yourself offline with no way of anyone having knowledge of the account you just made. The only way someone can see the transactions you were involved in is if they could physically pin point you to an account.

Conclusion 4: Transactions can not be faked, forged, reversed.

1. Basically every bitcoin belongs to an account and every bitcoin has a transaction history. The bitcoin has a unique identifier that is comprised of the account number it’s in. So only one bitcoin can belong to one account at one time. When you make a transaction you announce it to the network with a “signed” verification. The network checks their ledger to see if that bitcoin actually exists and belongs to your account. Once that’s verified it is sent to the new account and that bitcoin is now given a new unique identifier comprised of the new account number it’s in. This unique identifier is now unknown to the person who sent the account and that bitcoin is out of the control of the original person who had it then sent it.

Conclusion 5: Bitcoins can be made to be physical items.

1. I like this feature! Bitcoins can actually be made to be physically traded. This is because the unique identifier belonging to the bitcoin is the key to sending it. This identifier is a “private key” that can be witten or stored on a coin or paper. Even if you don’t know the account a bitcoin belongs to, if you have the private key it could be spent. So, IF I wanted to transfer 20 bitcoins I have in one of my accounts, all I would have to do is write down the private key on a paper and give it to you. No computer is necessary for the transaction. Ofcourse, there is some level of trust needed. Check out this site https://www.casascius.com/

A few of my concerns...

I don't like the idea of creating something out of encryption. It seems beyond the scope of the common man and nearing borderline high-tech plutocracy. And I know there are lot of mechanisms in place to prevent this like you said, but it still seems vulnerable to eventually being cracked, hacked, or crashed however unlikely. Plus I still don't see anything in a digital code as tangible, just a bunch of 1's and 0's. And if the whole economic system falls apart in an crash, maybe I can't access my Bitcoins anymore, or if I can, how am I going to exchange them for food or whatever. And another reason is that I'm simply afraid that in the end, we will all find that it was worthless. And still rambling but how many real world things are you actually going to be able to purchase with it? I know you make your case but everything I find seems to show a trend of gambling or black market type uses, so again still nothing to show my trust for it, but these things could change with time. And with its lack of legitimacy, someone like me with only marginal computer skills enters naively into this mining market and get scammed or whatever, who does this person go to? And sorry but another thing, can you get a problem with too many speculators holding onto their Bitcoins with the way these prices are going up causing the digital currency to lose its liquidity and come to a standstill, becoming more of a collectible item than an actual fluid market currency. This is a lot, but those are a few of my concerns for now but I will continue to research it and see if I am convinced otherwise.

Great Concerns

You've listed some great concerns and I share similar. Bitcoin is the first technology of its kind and its mechanism is difficult to understand. Your reaction to it is normal and your criticism is beneficial in helping to improve the bitcoin economy.

Understand that Bitcoin is a global attempt to take on monopolized government fiat. Its a historic, non-aggressive, revolutionary undertaking. It will not happen overnight and the powers "that be" will not go down without a fight.

Compare Bitcoin to the internet of 20 years ago when only geeks used and understood it - Software engineers don't make things user friendly. Today, the Internet has become woven into our everyday lives. Large systems take time to evolve.

One thing Bitcoin provides today is a wide-open, entrepreneurial playing field. Bitcoin start-ups are popping up everywhere trying to solve the concerns people like you have. Its an exciting time to learn something new and have power to effectuate monetary change.

A good place to ask questions and learn more is: http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin

Regardless of all the

Regardless of all the wonderful creativity to bypass the current system and all the great points made in its favor (and maybe this is a little pessimistic), I fear that in the end if the money powers ever perceive it to be too much of a threat, they will find a way to do something about it whether it be to gain control of it, co opt it, crash it, outlaw it, manipulate it, etc. Remember it's anonymous so bit by bit they can wiggle their way in and we'll never know.

Paralyzed by fear..

Look man, Life has risks... crossing the street has risks, should you debate and think of all the things that could go wrong pick the very worst things and then use that to justify not crossing the street.

The point I'm trying to make is you need to properly asses risk and put it into context. Is Bitcoins perfect... Is it the end all be all..Absolutely not. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

All the fear you have about the Bitcoin system could be said about Gold and Silver. Someone looking to purchase Gold and Silver could say.. "What if the government comes to confiscate it, What if the government labels me a terrorist, What if they impose jail sentences for using it to trade, what if they impose high taxes on it's sale..." See, that risk is all there for Gold and Silver but assesing the risk of owning precious metals vs not should lead someone to conclude that they should own precious metals despite the risk.

It's the exact same thing with Bitcoins.but still the risk is on a lesser scale. Remember no one is saying to put your wealth into Bitcoins the arguement is to use it as a currency to transact and bypass the dollar. It's Dollars vs Bitcoins... Honestly, your fear is really irrational when you think of all the risk associated with FIAT central banker debt money.

Want to destroy Bitcoin?

It is absolutely possible to attack the network. See:

http://mineforeman.com/2012/12/10/want-to-destroy-bitcoin-i-...

adam kokesh on bitcoin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hJa...

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY
http://www.dailypaul.com/303151/bitcoin-has-gone-on-an-insan...

I'm not a Bitcoin fan either.

I can't get behind something I'll never be able to physically hold. I don't like the whole digital currency concept period.

That said, I like making money. I do intend on getting involved with a mining pool.
I will not trade dollars for bitcoins though.

So Dollars over Bitcoins...?

by the way you can physically hold Bitcoins, It has all the Characteristics of a physical currency. https://www.casascius.com/

Glad your getting into Bitcoins, I think once you fully understand how the currency functions you will stop aiding the elite central bankers by using dollars and move towards the side of liberty.

Labeling...

people who have problems with bitcoins as pro-dollar and keynesian is dishonest. People on Daily Paul are not that stupid and shallow and you are just embarrassing yourself.

Persons who argue against bitcoin because bitcoins have no intrinsic use value, fails to meet the requirements of the regression theorem, and are not real commodities are arguing from an AUSTRIAN SCHOOL perspective and in no way support fiat currencies such as the dollar.

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

100% false.. Bitcoins does not Violate the regression theorem

Sorry man, there is no getting around this. If you use Dollars instead of Bitcoins you are part of the problem. All the arguments you have against Bitcoins can be used against Dollars. Except for one thing.. Bitcoins diminishes the power of the elite and Bitcoins empowers the people. So unless you completely have dumped the dollar in transacting he or she who is on the side of Liberty should use Bitcoins or some other currency that is not FIAT to transact when possible.

From a fellow liberty lovery (XC) about your claim on the Regression theorem:

The Money Regression and Emergence of Money from the Barter Economy
The entire purpose of the regression theorem was to help explain an apparent paradox of money: how does money have value as a medium of exchange if it is valued because it serves as a medium of exchange? Menger and Mises helped break this apparent circularity by explaining the essential time component missing from the phrasing of the paradox.

As Rothbard explains in Man, Economy, and State (p 270),
"...a money price at the end of day X is determined by the marginal utilities of money and the good as they existed at the beginning of day X. But the marginal utility of money is based, as we have seen above, on a previously existing array of money prices. Money is demanded and considered useful because of its already existing money prices. Therefore, the price of a good on day X is determined by the marginal utility of the good on day X and the marginal utility of money on day X, which last in turn depends on the prices of goods on day X – 1. The economic analysis of money prices is therefore not circular. If prices today depend on the marginal utility of money today, the latter is dependent on money prices yesterday." [all emphasis added]

Rothbard then goes on to explain that in order for money to emerge from a barter economy, it must have a preexisting commodity value. This commodity value arises from barter demand for the potential money in direct consumption (i.e. ornamentation). This value seeds future estimations of the value of the money as a medium of exchange. The natural market emergence of money is thus fully explained.

The Monetary Economy
However, once an economy has been monetized and a memory of price ratios for goods and services has been established, a money may lose its direct commodity value and still be used as a money (medium of indirect exchange). Rothbard explains (p 275):
"On the other hand, it does not follow from this analysis that if an extant money were to lose its direct uses, it could no longer be used as money. Thus, if gold, after being established as money, were suddenly to lose its value in ornaments or industrial uses, it would not necessarily lose its character as a money. Once a medium of exchange has been established as a money, money prices continue to be set. If on day X gold loses its direct uses, there will still be previously existing money prices that had been established on day X – 1, and these prices form the basis for the marginal utility of gold on day X. Similarly, the money prices thereby determined on day X form the basis for the marginal utility of money on day X + 1. From X on, gold could be demanded for its exchange value alone, and not at all for its direct use. Therefore, while it is absolutely necessary that a money originate as a commodity with direct uses, it is not absolutely necessary that the direct uses continue after the money has been established."

This explains the history of fiat currencies. They originally started off as simple names for weights of commodity money (silver) that developed out of the pre-monetary barter economy. Despite later losing their ties to direct commodity value through state interference, paper currency retained status as money because of memory of previous money prices. This factor is so strong that the relationship between gold and the USD, for example, is somewhat inverted. Gold no longer circulates as a common medium of exchange. Prices are set in USD, not in gold. Most individuals wishing to trade in gold do so based on their knowledge of USD/gold price ratios. ("Hey, let me buy that $100 couch from you in gold?" "Ok, USD/gold is $1000/oz. Give me 1/10oz of gold.") Legal tender laws, state taxation, and the entire financial regulatory environment maintain this inertia of USD prices and make it challenging to return to gold money directly, despite the destructive inflationary nature of fiat currencies.

The Emergence of the Bitcoin Economy
The very first businesses in the Bitcoin economy were exchangers (NewLibertyStandard, BitcoinMarket, BitcoinExchange,....). This is not an accident, but flows from the analysis above. In order for Bitcoins to serve as a medium of exchange without commodity value for uses besides indirect exchange, there must be a translated knowledge of money prices. Market exchangers fill this gap and give Bitcoin users access to this knowledge. Bitcoins may therefore currently serve as a money intermediary for paypal dollars\pecunix\euros. But why is there demand for Bitcoin over USD?? This is a subjective valuation arising from properties such as anonymity, decentralized system of clearance, cryptographic trust, predetermined and defined rate of growth, built in deflation, divisibility, low transaction fees, etc.... inherent to the Bitcoin system.

The essential point is that once exchange can occur between a money (USD) and Bitcoins, providers of goods have a means by which to value Bitcoins as a potential medium of exchange. The money regression is satisfied, because taken back far enough we reach traditional commodity money: BITCOINS -> USD -> MONETIZED GOLD & SILVER [start monetary economy] -> [end barter economy] COMMODITY GOLD & SILVER.

Of course, if a major meltdown occurred and knowledge of all price ratios was wiped out, Bitcoin probably would NOT directly emerge as a money (assuming Bitcoins have limited value outside of exchange). Fiat currencies with zero direct barter value certainly would not. Commodities such as gold and silver that have widely recognized direct value in barter would likely emerge first. The economy would then be monetized with price ratios in gold and silver. Bitcoins then, being valued for intrinsic properties amenable to exchange, might then become prevalent in trade. Initially, creators of value would continue to make their price value ratios in terms of the true money (gold oz/BTC ratio), but with time Bitcoin prices (BTC) can emerge (see vekja.net as example). We are in this initial phase now.

Therefore, so long as exchange of BTC and USD/Euros/etc… occurs, knowledge of existing price ratios can be utilized in the Bitcoin economy. In time as Bitcoins become increasingly marketable, these fiat<->BTC price ratios will seed direct BTC price ratios. The Bitcoin Economy thus emerges. The Misean regression theorem is satisfied.

XC